tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5010170380967519230.post1978013518633643889..comments2024-03-23T20:37:37.891-07:00Comments on First Known When Lost: "The Buried Life"Stephen Pentzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14882220887712092005noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5010170380967519230.post-60598706075218155392015-07-15T15:26:31.971-07:002015-07-15T15:26:31.971-07:00Esther: That's very nice of you to say. Than...Esther: That's very nice of you to say. Thank you very much. <br /><br />I'm pleased you liked the post. I suspect that the haiku by Issa was already known to you, either in the original and/or in various translations. I understand well Arnold's preoccupations, but it is always good to remind ourselves of another way of looking at things.<br /><br />It's always a pleasure to hear from you. Thank you very much for visiting again, and for your kind words.Stephen Pentzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14882220887712092005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5010170380967519230.post-83330919974558493602015-07-14T20:32:09.387-07:002015-07-14T20:32:09.387-07:00One of your best posts ever.One of your best posts ever.Esthernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5010170380967519230.post-35336948067206283802015-07-13T14:42:44.812-07:002015-07-13T14:42:44.812-07:00Anonymous: Thank you very much for your thoughts ...Anonymous: Thank you very much for your thoughts on Arnold, and for sharing the passage from Culture and Anarchy.<br /><br />Perhaps I should reflect more carefully, but I have an immediate response to the two questions you pose. 1. The "future" has not been saved from being "vulgarized." Alas. 2. Yes, Arnold's own time was indeed "a golden age compared to ours." No dispute there.<br /><br />An aside: I'm not sure that the Victorian period was any more "heavily oppressive" than our own period, or any other period in history. This is why I made my small point about Arnold's use of the term "present age" in his observation about "divorce from oneself." Each age believes that it is unique. But it isn't, when it comes to the perennial human issues. Of course, each age has its own peculiar goods and evils, but the underlying human condition does not vary. Only the technology changes. In my humble opinion.<br /><br />Thank you again.Stephen Pentzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14882220887712092005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5010170380967519230.post-30010606718170520402015-07-13T10:05:13.001-07:002015-07-13T10:05:13.001-07:00Never did people believe anything more firmly, tha...Never did people believe anything more firmly, than nine Englishmen out of ten at the present day believe that our greatness and welfare are proved by our being so very rich. Now, the use of culture is that it helps us, by means of its spiritual standard of perfection, to regard wealth as but machinery, and not only to say as a matter of words that we regard wealth as but machinery, but really to perceive and feel that it is so. If it were not for this purging effect wrought upon our minds by culture, the whole world, the future as well as the present, would inevitably belong to the Philistines. The people who believe most that our greatness and welfare are proved by our being very rich, and who most give their lives and thoughts to becoming rich, are just the very people whom we call the Philistines. Culture says: "Consider these people, then, their way of life, their habits, their manners, the very tones of their voice; look at them attentively; observe the literature they read, the things which give them pleasure, the words which come forth out of their mouths, the thoughts which make the furniture of their minds; would any amount of wealth be worth having with the condition that one was to become just like these people by having it?" And thus culture begets a dissatisfaction which is of the highest possible value in stemming the common tide of men's thoughts in a wealthy and industrial community, and which saves the future, as one may hope, from being vulgarised, even if it cannot save the present.<br /> --excerpt from part 1 of Arnold's "Culture and Anarchy"<br /><br />One might ask if the "future" Arnold hopes for has been saved from being "vulgarized." We know that Arnold was disillusioned by the time in which he lived. Some might say, and some have, that Arnold, despite his erudition and obvious great intelligence, is, at bottom, just another poet ensnared with nostalgia, always looking backwards for a golden age. I know bright people who don't read Arnold--don't read Tennyson or Browning either. Oh, all three poets comprised great talent, but their heavily oppressive times crippled them. Is it possible that could he somehow live in our present he'd rethink his views of his own time, find it a golden age compared to ours?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5010170380967519230.post-51454779843188133542015-07-12T16:48:57.156-07:002015-07-12T16:48:57.156-07:00Ms Aykroyd: Interesting: I also think of "T...Ms Aykroyd: Interesting: I also think of "The Lake Isle of Innisfree" whenever I read Arnold's lines. I'm not familiar with Hughes' poem, so I appreciate your reference to that as well. In his A New Commentary on the Poems of W. B. Yeats, A. Norman Jeffares does not mention any intended echo of Arnold's lines. (The only allusion he suggests is a line in Shelley's Adonais as perhaps being the source of "heart's core.") Nor does Kenneth Allott mention Yeats in his annotations to "The Buried Life." He does, however, suggest that the lines you quote from Arnold may have their source in two lines by Wordsworth from "Tintern Abbey": "But oft, in lonely rooms, and 'mid the din/Of towns and cities." Perhaps Yeats and Hughes were thinking of Wordsworth? It's hard to say, as you suggest.<br /><br />I lean toward your latter view: "those cross-patterning echoes that appear in the work of poets of different eras and places." For instance, I often find ancient Chinese poems, Japanese haiku and waka, and English poems that echo each other where there is no possibility of direct influence. It is serendipity. And a shared human way of looking at the world.<br /><br />As ever, it is a pleasure to hear from you. Thank you very much for visiting again, and for your thoughts.Stephen Pentzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14882220887712092005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5010170380967519230.post-2012667661357759712015-07-12T16:31:07.546-07:002015-07-12T16:31:07.546-07:00Fred: Thank you for the kind words. I'm plea...Fred: Thank you for the kind words. I'm pleased you liked the post. Arnold is interesting. His poetry can be a bit ponderous, in a Tennysonian way (particularly the long verse-drama type poems), but there are many shorter lyrical poems that are wonderful. And his emotional and philosophical concerns remain current (at least I think so).<br /><br />Yes, Issa's haiku puts things in perspective, doesn't it? I've been pretty good at completely avoiding both daily headlines and political pontifications recently, but reading the haiku still puts me at rest.<br /><br />As always, thank you very much for stopping by.Stephen Pentzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14882220887712092005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5010170380967519230.post-24598021660004486532015-07-12T13:48:05.635-07:002015-07-12T13:48:05.635-07:00Interesting - the lines from The Buried Life "...Interesting - the lines from The Buried Life "But often, in the world's most crowded streets,/But often, in the din of strife" reminded me of Yeats' Lake Isle of Innisfree ("While I stand on the roadway, or on the pavements grey/I hear it in the deep heart's core") and Ted Hughes' The Horses ("In din of crowded streets, going among the years, the faces/May I still meet my memory in so lonely a place"). Particularly the Hughes. The Yeats and the Hughes had, of course, reminded me of each other previously. <br /><br />As usual I'm wondering if there's direct influence, or if it's just those cross-patterning echoes that appear in the work of poets of different eras and places.Clarissa Aykroydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08571136118573329263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5010170380967519230.post-43076433652717165972015-07-12T08:15:12.628-07:002015-07-12T08:15:12.628-07:00Stephen,
Beautiful post. An excellent introducti...Stephen,<br /><br />Beautiful post. An excellent introduction to Matthew Arnold of whom I have heard much but of whose works, I must admit, I have read little.<br /><br />At the end of the day, after reading the day's headlines and listening to the clamor from so-called political "leaders," I need Issa's insight.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10233846613173866140noreply@blogger.com